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 Gay & lesbian hate crimes. 
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The Walrus
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Justin much? wrote:
but obviously I would rather be completely straight. To avoid people like all of my relatives secretly, or openly, disliking me.
I don't understand how they could dislike you because of something like that. It's one thing descriminating against a group of people you don't know, but when it's you're own family! :no:

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Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:24 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Shadowsim wrote:
Justin much? wrote:
but obviously I would rather be completely straight. To avoid people like all of my relatives secretly, or openly, disliking me.
I don't understand how they could dislike you because of something like that. It's one thing descriminating against a group of people you don't know, but when it's you're own family! :no:


seriously, your family should accept you for who you are. but sadly that's not always the case.

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Mon Jun 22, 2009 7:31 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
OK, let me get this straight, if a person is gay and then they die, they go to Hell, right? But those who abuse women, rape children, steal, cuss, murder and cause war, will they go to Heaven when they die?

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 7:51 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
ǝ. wrote:
OK, let me get this straight, if a person is gay and then they die, they go to Hell, right? But those who abuse women, rape children, steal, cuss, murder and cause war, will they go to Heaven when they die?

Which religion are you referring to?

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:03 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
iKevin wrote:
ǝ. wrote:
OK, let me get this straight, if a person is gay and then they die, they go to Hell, right? But those who abuse women, rape children, steal, cuss, murder and cause war, will they go to Heaven when they die?

Which religion are you referring to?

Christianity.

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:26 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Ok, saying Christianity is true, if you died and you were gay, but still loved God and believed in him(You were a true Christian), you would still go to Heaven. Same with any other type of sin.

In Christianity, God says that all sins are equal. There is no sin that is greater than another. So a child lying to their mother is the same as a son murdering their mother in God's eyes.

Everyone is equally sinful. There isn't ANYONE that is less or more sinful than another person.

So, just because someone is/was gay, doesn't mean that they're for sure going to Hell. If they're a Christian, they can still go to Heaven.

This isn't saying that you should go around murdering and raping people when your a Christian 'cause you know you'll go to heaven anyway. If you're a true Christian you should either at least feel somewhat guilty or not want to sin, although you still will.

I hope I explained that well. :/

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Last edited by iKevin on Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:38 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Exactly, just because you sinned (we all do) doesn't mean you're going to hell. According to Christianity, if you deny God and refuse his love when you die, you're going to hell. Any and every sin is forgivable if you are truly sorry for the sins you have committed

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:44 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Religion has to be brought up in every topic. . .

Well, if mass rape, murder, theft, and whatever else is as bad as stealing sweets, when can I start?

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:48 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Yes every sin is forgivable except suicide..That makes me sad though becuz some people killed themselfs and its just sad..Like 12 year olds.. :(

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:49 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Ah, so Hitler is in Hell. Good, good. Nice to know Saddam Hussein is in heaven though, i'll look out for him.

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:52 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Potatoe wrote:
Yes every sin is forgivable except suicide..That makes me sad though becuz some people killed themselfs and its just sad..Like 12 year olds.. :(

Actually, that's not true. It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that suicide is unforgivable. It's the same as any other sin.

Shadowsim wrote:
Well, if mass rape, murder, theft, and whatever else is as bad as stealing sweets, when can I start?


They're the same in God's eyes, but not in societies eyes. So start whenever you want, but have fun living the life of a criminal.

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 9:57 pm
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The Walrus
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
But, I can't believe that an all loving God would just say to some murdered "Ah, you're off the hook". Either that or he punishes 10 year olds in the exact same way as the murderers. I'm not saying I think sins should be unforgiveable, but it just makes no sense that they're all equal.

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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
That murderer would only "Get off the hook" if he were a Christian and was sorry for what he did. Same with the child.

If the child and the murderer both died eventually and they were both non-Christians, then they would both be punished equally.

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:07 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
So, God's saying "If you love me... then you are off the hook?". Hm.

Or that's how it seems to me anyway. I'd find it very hard to love someone who has cuased so much pain to so many people, who there's increasing evidence against their existence, who's ideology has caused more wars and suffering than anything else in history... the list goes on.

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:10 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
We are ALL PEOPLE. everyone makes mistakes..Andd we are gods kids. If ur son were to murder would u just lose all ur love for him?

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:13 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Well there are 2 different types of sins. Mortal and Venial. Mortal sins are much worse than Venial sins

The Distinction between two types of sin

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All sin is an offense against God and a rejection of his perfect love and justice. Yet, Jesus makes a distinction between two types of sins. We call the most serious and grave sins, mortal sins. Mortal sins destroy the grace of God in the heart of the sinner. By their very grave nature, a mortal sin cuts our relationship off from God and turns man away from his creator. St. Paul’s letter to the Hebrews tell us that "if we sin willfully after having the knowledge of the truth, there is now left no sacrifice for sins" (Hebrews 10:26). The second type of sin, venial sin, that of less grave matter, does not cut us off from Christ. However, venial sin does weaken grace in the soul and damages our relationship with God. A person who frequently indulges in venial sin is very likely to collapse into mortal sin if they persist in their evil ways.


There are also "grave" mortal sins

Quote:
Four other sins are considered grave also. These sins not only offend God, but men as well. Thus these four sins are called "the sins that cry to heaven for vengeance" and are likewise mortal sins. These grave sins are:

The voluntary murder (Genesis 4:10)
The sin of impurity against nature –Sodomy and homosexual relations (Genesis 18:20)
Taking advantage of the poor (Exodus 2:23)
Defrauding the workingman of his wages (James 5:4)


So yes, there are some sins that are worse than others. Yet God is seen as the Father, and what does a father do? Love his children unconditionally. It doesn't matter how horrible your sins are, he will always forgive his children if they are truly sorry for what they have done

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:14 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
"impurity against nature - homosexual relations (Genesis 18:20)"

So, being gay is an ultimate sin? :no: God's homophobic?

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:17 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Shadowsim wrote:
"impurity against nature - homosexual relations (Genesis 18:20)"

So, being gay is an ultimate sin? :no: God's homophobic?

Um, no, God does not have a sexual preference because he is pure

This is what's said about forgiveness of sins
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All sins can be forgiven

A person who repents of their sin, intends to live a new life of grace, and receives the Sacrament of Reconciliation will be forgiven of all their sins (mortal sins in particular must be confessed in the Sacrament). Our sins can be forgiven, because Jesus Christ paid for the price of human sin by dying on the cross for the redemption of humanity. Jesus Christ, true man and true God, was the perfect sacrifice for human sin and as a result saved those who are baptized, repent and believe in him.

Because a baptized Christian can still sin, Christ instituted the Sacrament of Reconciliation for the forgiveness of our sins. Jesus gave the power to forgive sins in his name to the Church. He told his apostles, "Receive the Holy Spirit. Whose sins you forgive are forgiven them, and whose sins you retain are retained" (John 20:22–23). This means that the apostles and their successors, the priests and bishops of the Catholic Church, can forgive sins in Jesus’ name.

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:19 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
Shadowsim wrote:
So, God's saying "If you love me... then you are off the hook?". Hm.

Or that's how it seems to me anyway. I'd find it very hard to love someone who has cuased so much pain to so many people, who there's increasing evidence against their existence, who's ideology has caused more wars and suffering than anything else in history... the list goes on.


It's not only loving God that makes you a Christian. Being a Christian is also believing that Jesus came to earth to die one of the most painful death's imaginable so we could have eternal happiness instead of eternal suffering. Wouldn't you want to love someone that did that for you?

So basically God is saying if you appreciate what I've done for you, then I will have mercy upon you.

If you don't appreciate what he did and deny God, then you're basically saying "I don't care about what God did for me, I'll just go to hell."

"Why does God allow suffering?"

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Why Does God Allow People To Suffer?

The Bible tells us in Revelation 21:4 that there is coming a time when all sorrow, tears, pain and death will pass away. There's coming a wonderful day when God will wipe away all tears from the eyes of His children, and our sorrow will end forever. Dear reader, I hope you are a Christian, so you too may claim this blessed promise that God has made to those who have come to know Him through His beloved Son, the Lord Jesus Christ. There's a great day coming for those who have been saved by grace through faith in the Lord Jesus Christ.

However, for this present time, we must face the undeniable fact that people do suffer. That's a fact of life. You can find sickness, sorrow, and suffering in all walks of life. It's everywhere you look. This very moment you can probably think of someone very close to you who is suffering greatly, and it just doesn't seem fair. Why does God allow it to happen? Does God even care? If God is so good and holy, then why doesn't He put an end to all suffering and pain? Keep reading, for there is a reason.

The Beginning of Suffering and Sorrow

There was a time on this earth when suffering and sorrow did not exist. When God first created man upon the earth, everything was perfect. There was no sickness, no pain, no sorrow of any kind. It was God's plan for man to live in peace and harmony never having to experience sorrow. According to Genesis chapter three, it wasn't until man chose the way of Satan, rather than the way of God, that sorrow entered the world. Man sins against God in Genesis 3:6-7, and God reveals to Adam and Eve the consequences of sin in Genesis 3:16-19. God told Adam and Eve that they would now experience SORROW and DEATH. Therefore, the suffering and sorrow that you and I face today is not the work of an unjust God; it's the consequences of sin. We suffer because we are sinners. Romans 6:23 says, "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Friend, we suffer and die because of SIN.

You say, "I didn't do anything wrong. Why am I a sinner?" We are all born with a sin nature. We inherited our fallen sin nature from Adam and Eve. Romans 5:12 says, "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:" We read in Romans 3:23 that ALL HAVE SINNED and come short of the glory of God. Why do we suffer? We suffer because we are sinners by nature.


http://www.biblebelievers.com/jmelton/suffer.html

"who's ideology has caused more wars and suffering than anything else in history"

Examples?

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Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:26 pm
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Post Re: Gay & lesbian hate crimes.
i have an idea. Go debate this on the christianity thread :coolguy:


Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:34 pm
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